Covid & Discussions of Pro/Con Football Season HERE

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I honestly have no idea how many people have left because we really haven't had any football to discuss. I'm fine with the board policies and understand the tightrope they are having to walk here. I just don't understand why someone would be so offended that they leave. If anything, I would think that a lack of traffic would drive someone away more.

Just maybe to add some context to this, the problem with some of the discussion is at some point someone crosses a line. So for example in politics what is that line? In many instances it is a judgement call, and that call is open to bias. So from a mod perspective, how do you draw the line that is fair and can be applied in a fair manner to all views. It becomes a huge problem. So at some point in the past a 3rd rail forum had all hell break lose and people where emailing the owners and admins and calling and complaining. The ownership decided to just say to make it fair no more politics at all. That is much easier to enforce in a way that is fair. Now it might not be always cut and dried but it is closer... Now I understand that Covid is going to be a topic because it is affecting football and some might be for canceling and many are not. So as long as we can keep this reasoned and polite we can let this thread go. But the other rules of the board should be followed, because they have been put in place in the best interests of our happy home here at BHF.

I hope everyone can understand from a mod/admin perspective why when you have a huge blowup that it starts to take a toll on us. The decisions to warn/ban and delete posts are not easy and they are not taken lightly. We have friends here too. We are like a family.

SOC

PS Crazyhole I do not mean to point any criticism at you with my reply here I just used your post to help created a starting point to put some context on the discussion happening here.
 
Rolled out the WHO test instead of trying to create our own and screwing it up (last part is on CDC)
Funded testing sooner
Funded contract tracing so it actually worked - hired and trained people to do it in a timely manner.
Targeted shutdowns as outbreaks spike
Mark wearing adopted sooner

Come on Crazy this is what the rest of the world did - how is it silly?
First, I need a defined goal to decide if what we are doing is working. Are we trying to keep infection rates under 10%? 5%? Keep hospital capacity adequate? Keep death rates under a certain %? Stop the virus dead in it's tracks without any community spread? What exactly is the targeted goal?
Second, once the virus has entered the populace, and you lock everything down, once you relax shutdowns, restrictions, etc. how do infections NOT rise? A virus with an R value of 2.5 to 3 doesn't take much to get rolling. How do you open campuses with large gatherings and keep it from spreading? What are the decision points and thresholds for shutdowns and cancellations? To me, that's where the giant cluster is. People are not being given the specific reasons that they must sacrifice. Telling people it's to "get the virus under control" is too general, especially when trust in public officials has been eroded and you see what that means to some Governors (like Whitmer in Michigan) vs others (Noem in South Dakota). The US will never quietly tolerate a large number of freedoms being suspended when the threat has not been quantified, and when people are not told what the specific goal is, so any plan that has that framework doesn't fit our culture and is doomed to fail from the start.....
 
Just maybe to add some context to this, the problem with some of the discussion is at some point someone crosses a line. So for example in politics what is that line? In many instances it is a judgement call, and that call is open to bias. So from a mod perspective, how do you draw the line that is fair and can be applied in a fair manner to all views. It becomes a huge problem. So at some point in the past a 3rd rail forum had all hell break lose and people where emailing the owners and admins and calling and complaining. The ownership decided to just say to make it fair no more politics at all. That is much easier to enforce in a way that is fair. Now it might not be always cut and dried but it is closer... Now I understand that Covid is going to be a topic because it is affecting football and some might be for canceling and many are not. So as long as we can keep this reasoned and polite we can let this thread go. But the other rules of the board should be followed, because they have been put in place in the best interests of our happy home here at BHF.

I hope everyone can understand from a mod/admin perspective why when you have a huge blowup that it starts to take a toll on us. The decisions to warn/ban and delete posts are not easy and they are not taken lightly. We have friends here too. We are like a family.

SOC

PS Crazyhole I do not mean to point any criticism at you with my reply here I just used your post to help created a starting point to put some context on the discussion happening here.
You're fine, I didn't take it as criticism and I totally understand why the board has the policies it does. JMO, but the whole "never talk politics, sex, or religion" thing that the baby boomer generation embraced has really done a disservice to all of us. By not learning how to discuss difficult issues in a civilized way we find ourselves in a situation where we can't even discuss small issues without having someone get their feelings hurt. To me, Covid really shouldn't be a controversial issue but for some reason people get really emotional when they find someone that has a different opinion on masks, treatments, or even just the basic statistics regarding it. Its just weird that we are talking about a virus, and yet there can't be any kind of objective perspective regarding it, just a personal and emotional one.
 
Just maybe to add some context to this, the problem with some of the discussion is at some point someone crosses a line. So for example in politics what is that line? In many instances it is a judgement call, and that call is open to bias. So from a mod perspective, how do you draw the line that is fair and can be applied in a fair manner to all views. It becomes a huge problem. So at some point in the past a 3rd rail forum had all hell break lose and people where emailing the owners and admins and calling and complaining. The ownership decided to just say to make it fair no more politics at all. That is much easier to enforce in a way that is fair. Now it might not be always cut and dried but it is closer... Now I understand that Covid is going to be a topic because it is affecting football and some might be for canceling and many are not. So as long as we can keep this reasoned and polite we can let this thread go. But the other rules of the board should be followed, because they have been put in place in the best interests of our happy home here at BHF.

I hope everyone can understand from a mod/admin perspective why when you have a huge blowup that it starts to take a toll on us. The decisions to warn/ban and delete posts are not easy and they are not taken lightly. We have friends here too. We are like a family.

SOC

PS Crazyhole I do not mean to point any criticism at you with my reply here I just used your post to help created a starting point to put some context on the discussion happening here.

For some combinations of reasons, Covid-19 has been turned into a political issue,a 1st amendment issue, a disgust of authority issue, and social interaction issue.

It is a virus. It is killing some, sickening others, and just conveniently using many. It is doing exactly what a successful disease virus should do. But we can’t even seem to come to any agreement on that aspect.

You set up the thread to discuss the virus. But most of the posts on the thread have more to do with how close can I get to the allowed discussion lines without getting slapped down or complaining about hurt feelings.

There was a good post that I can’t find right now that brought up a key point about what is the right criteria to measure our success to defeat this virus. We, as a society, need those guidelines.

I have I different problem with Covid-19 and I am looking for suggestions:

Situation: I am president of a homeowners association that is a legal corporation. I am required to conduct a meeting, for all owners, to elect a board of directors and set annual dues.

I have moved the meeting to an outdoor location to comply with state mandates about size and location of gatherings.

Problem: How do I get everyone to come with a mask and wear it.

I have decided to put out the following message.

Many people living or staying here have medical conditions that would make them vulnerable if they were to become infected with Covid-19. That includes both me and my wife. For that reason, for this meeting, masks are required. If you are uncomfortable with that requirement and come to the meeting without a mask, then I become very uncomfortable. If you come without a mask, I will leave. You can then find someone else to conduct this required meeting.

Any suggestions on altering that directive?
 
I think it is time to just move forward with these parameters:

  • Protect the most vulnerable; define who those people are. Nursing homes and so forth. I am OK with stores offering special hours for those people. They do that at many stores here. At the end of the day that should be the message. The only people to be concerned with on college campuses are the at-risk professors. My son has one online class because of it.
  • Open up the schools, the damage being done psychologically and educationally is a crime. Not to mention the abuse that is no longer being reported by schools. Sexual predators have also been having a field day with no parents at home. Cleveland had to have a huge sting and arrested many people. They said the cases have gone through the roof. Online education is worthless to are disadvantaged population. The inner cities need to have schools open. Here those are the stupid ones doing education. The arrogant CEO of the Cleveland schools thinks he is doing the right thing. Someone tell the fool they have a rating of "F" in Ohio. The private schools are all open. Most of the suburban schools are at least hybrid.
  • Open up all events with restrictions
  • Quit giving the number of daily cases each day. Track number of hospitalizations. That is the number that counts. If OSU has 800 cases, there are many more that has it. To a degree you have to let this run it's course through the population that it is not effecting. Again, the emphasis is on protecting the vulnerable.
  • They need to really test everyone who is symptomatic. No one will say it out loud, but that is the reason I don't want daily numbers given. But why are we not testing everyone here? Why does it take so long? I got tested privately.
I know I am all over, but since this was politicized we were screwed. When it comes to politics, I can't really stand any of them. They have ALL screwed this up. They are ALL just different shades of stupid. The people that should run our country won't because it isn't worth it to go through the stupidity and the process.

Done with my rant. It is raining here all day and I have to watch old football games. Non-power 5 didn't cut it for me this weekend.
 
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For some combinations of reasons, Covid-19 has been turned into a political issue,a 1st amendment issue, a disgust of authority issue, and social interaction issue.

It is a virus. It is killing some, sickening others, and just conveniently using many. It is doing exactly what a successful disease virus should do. But we can’t even seem to come to any agreement on that aspect.

You set up the thread to discuss the virus. But most of the posts on the thread have more to do with how close can I get to the allowed discussion lines without getting slapped down or complaining about hurt feelings.

There was a good post that I can’t find right now that brought up a key point about what is the right criteria to measure our success to defeat this virus. We, as a society, need those guidelines.

I have I different problem with Covid-19 and I am looking for suggestions:

Situation: I am president of a homeowners association that is a legal corporation. I am required to conduct a meeting, for all owners, to elect a board of directors and set annual dues.

I have moved the meeting to an outdoor location to comply with state mandates about size and location of gatherings.

Problem: How do I get everyone to come with a mask and wear it.

I have decided to put out the following message.

Many people living or staying here have medical conditions that would make them vulnerable if they were to become infected with Covid-19. That includes both me and my wife. For that reason, for this meeting, masks are required. If you are uncomfortable with that requirement and come to the meeting without a mask, then I become very uncomfortable. If you come without a mask, I will leave. You can then find someone else to conduct this required meeting.

Any suggestions on altering that directive?

If you are conducting your meeting at an outside venue and are properly social distanced you don't need to have a mask. However if you ar requiring everyone to wear a mask and they don't you can ask them to leave. If you are really concerned about possibly spreading the virus then do a zoom meeting. It's not always ideal but it works. You can even have some there in person outside while having a zoom meeting as well. There are ways to pull this off, you just have to get creative during the time of this pandemic. Just my thoughts.
 
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If you are conducting your meeting at an outside venue and are properly social distanced you don't need to have a mask. However if you ar requiring everyone to wear a mask and they don't you can ask them to leave. If you are really concerned about possibly spreading the virus then do a zoom meeting. It's not always ideal but it works. You can even have some there in person outside while having a zoom meeting as well. There are ways to pull this off, you just have to get creative during the time of this pandemic. Just my thoughts.

Thanks for your input.

I looked at conducting it as a Zoom meeting but most of the board of directors wanted the meeting to be face to face. Because it's in the boonies where service is limited I can't do both.

Also where we are located the population tends to be somewhat militant in their stance on masks. If I asked someone to leave, it would result in a heated confrontation. My solution is to just leave myself. In other words if you exercise your right to not wear a mask then I am compelled to exercise my right to avoid you. So I will make it known, in advance, if anyone shows up without a mask, I will leave and someone else can figure out how to conduct the meeting. I live on a lake in the middle of no where. So the area itself is rural and conservative. Here, masks are a political and social issue.

But thanks for your input.
 
I kind of think that was his point.

exactly my point...Also, I still think censorship of any kind is wrong if there is nothing overly offensive said. I don’t think I’ve said anything offensive. Maybe strong opinion based off my experiences and what I see.

GOD BLESS, Mario Herrera of the LPD. Thank you for your service.
 
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exactly my point...Also, I still think censorship of any kind is wrong if there is nothing overly offensive said. I don’t think I’ve said anything offensive. Maybe strong opinion based off my experiences and what I see.


Then I was wrong to think you grasp the distinction b/w a private msg forum vs. a publication censored by a gov'tal entity.

Regardless, please state your strong opinions within the rules of the board, or don't state them here.
 
exactly my point...Also, I still think censorship of any kind is wrong if there is nothing overly offensive said. I don’t think I’ve said anything offensive. Maybe strong opinion based off my experiences and what I see.

GOD BLESS, Mario Herrera of the LPD. Thank you for your service.

Amen. Very sad.
 
For some combinations of reasons, Covid-19 has been turned into a political issue,a 1st amendment issue, a disgust of authority issue, and social interaction issue.

It is a virus. It is killing some, sickening others, and just conveniently using many. It is doing exactly what a successful disease virus should do. But we can’t even seem to come to any agreement on that aspect.

You set up the thread to discuss the virus. But most of the posts on the thread have more to do with how close can I get to the allowed discussion lines without getting slapped down or complaining about hurt feelings.

There was a good post that I can’t find right now that brought up a key point about what is the right criteria to measure our success to defeat this virus. We, as a society, need those guidelines.

I have I different problem with Covid-19 and I am looking for suggestions:

Situation: I am president of a homeowners association that is a legal corporation. I am required to conduct a meeting, for all owners, to elect a board of directors and set annual dues.

I have moved the meeting to an outdoor location to comply with state mandates about size and location of gatherings.

Problem: How do I get everyone to come with a mask and wear it.

I have decided to put out the following message.

Many people living or staying here have medical conditions that would make them vulnerable if they were to become infected with Covid-19. That includes both me and my wife. For that reason, for this meeting, masks are required. If you are uncomfortable with that requirement and come to the meeting without a mask, then I become very uncomfortable. If you come without a mask, I will leave. You can then find someone else to conduct this required meeting.

Any suggestions on altering that directive?

I showed your post to my wife. She was president of our 105-member HOA in California for around 15 years. It's a thankless job. She ended up taking crap from all sides.

Anyway, if your meeting is outside with few attendees who are social distancing, then she thinks the mask business could be optional. If you've got dozens of people showing up, then you're probably within your rights to request masks be worn by everyone in attendance. One thing you could do, though...if there are only a handful who don't wear masks, and you're feeling uncomfortable, then put them in their own group at a distance from the rest of you. Ask them to respect your wishes. Let them know beforehand what your rules are so they have no excuse to grumble if they want to attend. The chances of catching Covid outside are much more remote than in an enclosed place. Personally, my wife and I are in the same age group as you and neither one of us would freak out at attending an outdoor meeting with people not wearing masks.

I don't know about your HOA, but we were lucky to have 10-12 homeowners (out of 105) show up at our meetings. (Of course, the ones who weren't there would later complain about some resolution passed!)
 
I showed your post to my wife. She was president of our 105-member HOA in California for around 15 years. It's a thankless job. She ended up taking crap from all sides.

Anyway, if your meeting is outside with few attendees who are social distancing, then she thinks the mask business could be optional. If you've got dozens of people showing up, then you're probably within your rights to request masks be worn by everyone in attendance. One thing you could do, though...if there are only a handful who don't wear masks, and you're feeling uncomfortable, then put them in their own group at a distance from the rest of you. Ask them to respect your wishes. Let them know beforehand what your rules are so they have no excuse to grumble if they want to attend. The chances of catching Covid outside are much more remote than in an enclosed place. Personally, my wife and I are in the same age group as you and neither one of us would freak out at attending an outdoor meeting with people not wearing masks.

I don't know about your HOA, but we were lucky to have 10-12 homeowners (out of 105) show up at our meetings. (Of course, the ones who weren't there would later complain about some resolution passed!)

An outdoor meeting where I can move a good distance from those folks who are not in masks I'm fine with. An indoor meeting with folks not wearing masks and I'm outta there. Especially if there is likely to be shouting as that's when the spittle flies. Even if everyone remains calm, I'm not down with being indoors these days where folks aren't wearing masks. Just my $0.02 worth.
 
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An outdoor meeting where I can move a good distance from those folks who are not in masks I'm fine with. An indoor meeting with folks not wearing masks and I'm outta there. Especially if there is likely to be shouting as that's when the spittle flies. Even if everyone remains calm, I'm not down with being indoors these days where folks aren't wearing masks. Just my $0.02 worth.

Hey, at our HOA meetings, spittle was in abundance! I often thought about bringing an umbrella. Everybody had an opinion.
 
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Hey, at our HOA meetings, spittle was in abundance! I often thought about bringing an umbrella. Everybody had an opinion.
LOL, those are the problems though in doors.

Our black lab gave me a classic lesson in how spittle flies. He got right in my face and barked (outside voice but in the house). I needed a bath towel to get all his slobber off my face. Fortunately he's COVID-19 free.
 

Whoops. Basically, covid is 1/10th as deadly as originally predicted because of a mistake in analysis. Its essentially no more deadly than the flu according to this.

Watch out for anything on RT. Or Russia Today. I would base your opinion on this study on what you find on that cambridge.org link and not RT. This is for everyone that wants to read about this study and not Crazyhole. I just want everyone who looks at this to know not to believe a damn thing on RT. I would be like checking Radio Moscow in prior to the fall of the USSR. In fact, I think it is the replacement for Radio Moscow is it not? Not saying the facts of this are invalid just saying if you are interested check the Cambridge link...

SOC
 
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